The Road to UNBOUND — Jay Schwedelson: "The Next Five Years Won't Reward the Smartest People"

Rob Jones: Welcome back to the Road to Unbound. I'm your host Rob, joined by my bearded wonder friend Chris Carolan. Chris, how are you?

Chris Carolan: Doing well, sir.

Rob Jones: No time for that. All right, so we have a big, huge announcement. We have a guest today. You've probably seen him on Facebook. You've definitely seen him on stage. He's an author, he's a speaker. He's my best friend in the world. He's done a ton of things. He's he's currently, uh, he's the founder of subjectline.com. I don't think he'd want us to bore the audience with his accolades, but he's we got to, you know, for legal reasons, uh, do this, not that podcast, which is great. He's got a book coming up, which I won't give away the title to, but I am in the fan club. It releases June 9th, just saying. Um, so without any further ado, we're going to talk today to one of the people that is a headliner at Inbound, Unbound. I already did it, Chris. I already did it.

Chris Carolan: Wow.

Rob Jones: And we're introducing, uh, in light of my faux pas to the stage, Jay Schwedelson.

Jay Schwedelson: Why you should get Unbound right, because you're uncool and I would think that like you would instantly resonate with the un part of it.

Rob Jones: Indeed. Thank you.

Jay Schwedelson: We're all weak. Thank you.

Chris Carolan: We'll get our shit together. We're going to have like a an Unbound, uh, ticker, like that says Inbound.

Jay Schwedelson: I like that. Uncool, unsexy, and on everything.

Rob Jones: Yeah, I was going to boo myself and then realized you made it on, so appropriately, Rob, uh, saying the conference wrong. I know, it's terrible. You will not hear any of that in September when you listen to Jay speak. Jay, how how are you, man? You've got a lot going on. How are you?

Jay Schwedelson: You know, I'm keeping it real. Um, it's very hot down here in South Florida. Uh, so I'm not outside, I'm not sweating, although usually I am sweating. And I'm fired up, you know, Unbound Nation. I'm talking to you. I'm talking to Chris. I like Chris better than you, but that that's a very relative statement, so, you know, it is what it is.

Chris Carolan: Easiest to hear.

Rob Jones: And he brings jokes. I'm having fun with the StreamYard media assets, by the way.

Chris Carolan: Yes, you are. I'm not sure how I feel about it.

Rob Jones: Well, you're going to we can edit all the stuff out. We can add in additional laughs to my jokes, which I have planned. Um, magic of editing. Jay, uh, you're a busy guy, so we want to get as much stuff as we can into this time and not make it too much about your amazing life, uh, career, accolades, the book coming out. The first thing I want to say that I screwed up the intro with is that this year is changing from Inbound. I can say it since I'm giving historical context to Unbound.

Jay Schwedelson: Right.

Rob Jones: What are your first thoughts on that as somebody that is speaking there, as a marketer, as somebody that famously tests loads of stuff? Like, what are your thoughts on the change overall of the name?

Jay Schwedelson: Well, you know, it's amazing how much change it's one letter, right? But the reality of it is, is that Inbound, while it's it's a cool name, it's sort of limited in kind of the view of everything that's going on. So Unbound is this much bigger thing and that is what everybody out there is kind of dealing with is just more. So I think it's awesome. I, you know, I have a lot of Inbound memories. Um, I've been going to Inbound now for it's going to be my seventh or eighth year. And, oh, there it is. Rob's Rob's repping the original brand. Um, I will say one thing that really annoyed me at Inbound one year, you were in a dunk tank. And I was like, I got to get over to the dunk tank. So I went over and I found this dunk tank. And they had these balls, these baseballs that you threw. And I threw one of the greatest pitches ever in my life. It hit it square on the target and it did not drop you in. So I think that you're like a loser because did you set up the dunk tank so that like it wouldn't dunk you? Because who the hell does that?

Rob Jones: Um, yeah, so, yeah, this is this has been recorded. Uh, yes and no. So a couple things. This is the shirt you gave me, which is amazing. It has Jones on the back. So shout out. I also, by the way, have have all of this for our radio audience. Uh, I have all of this because

Jay Schwedelson: You have all this swag. And by the way, we made that shirt for Chipper Jones, but we just couldn't find him, just for the record.

Rob Jones: He wasn't there. Um, so yeah, that's fair. Me and Chipper go way, we went to different high schools together, actually.

Chris Carolan: I like it.

Rob Jones: Uh, the dunk tank, um, yeah, you I remember the pitch. It was cold. So first of all, it was freezing outside. And so I don't rigging is the wrong word, but we didn't want John Dick to be like frozen solid because he was one of the people that did it. Shout out John, if you're watching this, that was awesome. One of my favorite moments. But yeah, you absolutely threw a strike. You're you come out there Mariano Rivera style. Nailed the target and then what happened? Nothing.

Jay Schwedelson: Nothing.

Rob Jones: Um, jokes on me though, because you just called me a loser for the whole audience. Uh, and like a great, uh, marketer, host, interviewer, all the things you do. You just robbed me of my second question. Uh, so you got thoughts on Unbound. I was going to say, what are your favorite memories at, you know, to to lay to rest Inbound, transition to this new era. Give us another non-Rob, uh, adjacent Inbound memory that was really cool for you.

Jay Schwedelson: Uh, well, first of all, I thought last year when Brian Halligan ate hot wings and drank beer. I mean, just seeing, you know, one of the founders of HubSpot drinking beer on stage is just that's awesome. That's a vibe. Um, so that was really, really cool. And then, um, basically being able to drop weight for a wrestling match I never intended on being at, making it from one session to another one before the next one started. Those are memories I'll always hold with me because nothing's better than going into a session in a full-blown sweat. Um, so that's something I could do without.

Rob Jones: Yeah, don't want to uh, advise on going into a session in a full-blown sweat. But you, I mean, not to performative might be the wrong word, might be the right word. You are pretty performative on as a speaker. And I say that with the context of the Bon Jovi session that you did.

Chris Carolan: Thank you. Thank you.

Rob Jones: Do is that saying asking if it's intentional would be not a very good question. I know that it's intentional. I know that you want to not create boring content or or and you want to captivate the audience. Do you have anything like that that's a framework for how you build speeches, sessions? Do you have any anything you can give us for this year as a

Jay Schwedelson: Well, the first thing I always try to bring shame to my family, which which I do on the daily. But beyond that, you know, being real for a second, I do think whether you're speaking on stage, you're speaking in a conference room, if you're doing a Zoom with five people on it, um, I think movement in any time that you're speaking, not even giving a speech, any time you're speaking is everything, that you want to fill the screen. Because there's nothing more boring than going to a session and having somebody stand behind, you know, a lectern. That's terrible. Or somebody just sitting in a chair, or just standing up straight. It's very, very boring. So even if you're on a Zoom, you want to fill the screen, you want to have movement, it gets people engaged. And so I'm a big believer that if you are actually speaking on stage, that you want to feel you want to get everyone to feel like they're part of it and movement actually is something that can help out massively.

Rob Jones: I I agree. Uh, Chris, I'm going to just kind of leads right into your follow-up question, so I'm going to let you have it.

Chris Carolan: Um, I mean, lots of how-tos for this huge audience of of Inbound, Unbound speakers that we have. Um, I I am more interested in like, why is it important to Jay to speak at Unbound?

Jay Schwedelson: You know, that that's a good question because, um, when the first time I I spoke there, and it was, oh my God, that was so exciting, whatever. And you meet you met a lot, you meet a lot of cool people. Uh, but something that's different about Unbound than I would say a lot of other events is that there's like this this vibe where people really love being there. People really love like the experience. People really love the HubSpot community. And I'm not just saying this. It's different than other events. Other events, people are like, oh yeah, I learned this, I learned that. There were decent food. But people like start freaking out like weeks before this event. So it's unlike any other event that I'm a part of and that gets me stoked. And it's not even like transactional. I'm not like, I did the event and now I got all this new business. I actually, it's probably the one event where I don't actually look at like a return on my time as an investment because I just I should, but I don't do it for that reason.

Rob Jones: A couple things there just in case, uh, you've been living under a rock or only in an inbox for forever where you Jay still would have found you. Jay has his own guru conference that I have been, uh, a part of some fun stuff for the past two times. Uh, got to seeing, uh, Britney Spears in front of Nick Lachey that still haunts my nightmares, uh, to this day. But but I'm I'm bringing that up as context for Jay has a conference. I know it was attended last year by what, 30,000 people? Like insane guest list. You host it and still you choose this and there's a ton of value in that. Just with that context, do you want to add anything on to like how you've modeled guru after that or or things that you've kind of learned from doing both?

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah, I listen, if you if you look at what's going on at Inbound, first of all, the sessions are awesome. It is very hard to be able to speak there. They really curate the hell out of this thing, okay? And then even if you look at, for example, the, you know, the exhibit hall, and you look at compared to any other exhibit hall, right? This exhibit hall is kind of weaved in with the event. Like you feel like you're like in some sort of like community vibe. It's not like these like long aisles of these boring, you know, exhibits or whatever. And there's just everything's very intentional about uh, every moment at the event. And so I really I I do learn a lot about, um, how they move people around, how they schedule things, how, uh, you do have FOMO at times, which I think is good. You know, one of the things that people think about like with with any event is, oh, I missed out on this thing. I wanted to go to this session, but this session was going on. I think that's a great thing. And there's so many FOMO moments because there's so much good stuff going on, um, that that's something I I try to create FOMO. I try to create moments where you do have to choose at my events what you're going to do because you're going to miss out on stuff. And I like when people get a little angry about it because that means we're doing good.

Rob Jones: Yeah, there's a I'm not sure who said this. Matt, uh, the super founder has said marketing's the best thing for a marketer is a line. Right? Like a queue or a line outside of things. So

Jay Schwedelson: He was trying to make you feel good though, because I know in like college and stuff, they wouldn't let you into the bars and you were always on the line because like they're like, that dude's never getting in because he's suspect. So I think he was just trying to make you like like feel better about not getting in places when he told you that.

Rob Jones: Yeah, I I'm getting ripped apart. It's fine. Uh, you're exactly right, too. I mean, yeah, lines are the only about as far as I made it into bars, clubs, whatever, uh, which is totally fine.

Jay Schwedelson: Your nickname was Velvet Rope. I mean, that's what they called you.

Rob Jones: Yeah, they were, uh, Rob, don't let him in, Jones. Uh, was the was the old saying.

Chris Carolan: Your your happy hour from last year makes a lot more sense now.

Rob Jones: Yeah, that it does. Uh, I can't believe I was had no voice by the time that got here. Um, Jay, so, yeah, I I like the I like the logistic take of that because even virtual versus in-person, there's a lot like they fit so much value in and there is like an intentional FOMO. It's cool that you picked up on that. Something else you could pick up on is like we talked about this on the last Road to Unbound episode where they going back and looking at the shortened version is they seem to have had a theme per year with the like headliners and speakers that they've put like on the main stage. Yeah. Um, and this year they have Tom Brady. They have Cynthia Erivo, who literally is in Wicked and sings Defying Gravity. It any favorite like headliners from this year and do you notice a theme? I mean, they did change one letter to Unbound. That's to me as a marketer that kind of that should be a take you could have that's not that might be a little bit new to think about.

Jay Schwedelson: My take on it was, I wish they hired my agency to do that work because I could have changed one letter. That would have been a cool gig to get. But, um, putting that aside, uh, no, when I saw, uh, the headliners that they were coming out with, I was like, this is like seven Inbounds in one, right? There was like a number of people that could have been the headliner that they rolled out with. And I I just want to see what happens when you have Tom Brady at an event in Boston. Like, is the earth going to explode? Like, what actually happens? Like, there's no human being more connected with like a city than he is with that city. I mean, it's going to be crazy.

Rob Jones: Yeah, they I um, it's going to be a good place to be and I know he'll probably they usually do like the the main, main, main headliner Friday afternoon, so flights are going to be terrible. For what it's worth, I think they could list uh, Cynthia, um, Sunni Williams, any of these people to your point could be like the Friday afternoon main stage.

Jay Schwedelson: I think I'm going, um, right before Tom Brady.

Rob Jones: Are you really?

Jay Schwedelson: Which really, you think it's cool, but it's not.

Rob Jones: You Yeah, uh, man, you're so good at this. Uh, Chris, I will tee you up, but that leads me right into my, uh, next question before we get to the fun final round of questions. Um, which is not not the other speakers you're watching. Who wrote these notes? Oh, me, that was me. Yeah, I did. Um, but it's as far as being on stage, you have two sessions this year. Um, the next five years will not reward the smartest people.

Jay Schwedelson: That's right.

Rob Jones: I'm going to pause real quick. That's brilliant. And then do this, not that, fastest lifts and content offers in AI. I want to I want to stick to the next five years will not reward the smartest people because it kind of segues into the book. First of all, where's the applause button? Hold on.

Jay Schwedelson: Oh, look at me.

Rob Jones: Thank you. Absolutely. As somebody that has labeled themselves a generalist, unbelievable title. I mean, way to call out that insight. I agree for people that are coming to Unbound, not coming to Unbound, for people for people that are misers and and uh and like Chris that are bearded and and are uh and don't want to hear anything new. Can you give a preview of what that is about? I think the title kind of says it, but

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah.

Rob Jones: 30 seconds of like what we should expect from that session.

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah, well, in general, AI has made the playing field like very equal, right? Meaning that I didn't do particularly well in high school. When I applied to college, I wanted to go to the University of Florida and I got waitlisted like five times. You know, I barely I barely got in. My SAT score was terrible, okay? And all these other people, like they knew how to do this crazy math. I mean, I couldn't even take pre-calculus, let alone calculus, right? And then all the science stuff. And you knew, oh, those people are really smart. They're going to do big amazing things, right? Now, I it doesn't you don't need to be that smart, okay? What you need to do is be able to lean in to all the access that we all have. You know, there's a lot of companies that go to Inbound that are small businesses. And the playing field has gotten so equaled out. Small businesses can do the same stuff now that big businesses can. People that are dummies like me can do the same stuff that really smart people can. And understanding how you can, uh, get out of this negative self-talk that we're all in. I'm not smart enough, I don't have the right degree, I'm not a I'm awkward, I'm not a people person, I don't have the right resume, I didn't get started soon enough, I'm too old, I'm too young, I'm too whatever. This negative self-talk that we can't do it is what we got to break out of because we have the moment right now and the tools right now to do whatever it is that we want to do and crush it. And that's what I'm going to be talking about.

Rob Jones: I have a interesting follow-up as a tribute to George, who's not here, but Chris, I I don't know if you want to ask it or if you have something else to ask Jay about from that.

Chris Carolan: Um, I mean, like, how do you in this one thing that I've been thinking about since they asked for like submissions in February, right? Like, seven months away is this event that you're supposed to submit a talk for and get approved. Like, how did you put yourself in a position to where like AI is happening and changing things every day that I know that I'm going to be able to add value like to the conversation?

Jay Schwedelson: So that's a really great point because you're 100% right that it's like, if I submit this thing, it might be dated by the time, you know, the session rolls around, which is why, frankly, that with any session you want to put out there, you do want to kind of really think it out, like, okay, I don't know exactly what's going to be in my talk, but this topic, is it still going to be sound when it when it when it comes around? Right? And I do think part of the problem when people submit on sessions for anywhere where they speak, they make two mistakes. Number one, they make it too narrow, right? If you you submit something that's too narrow, then they look at it, be like, this is not going to help enough people, right? How to use the latest version of Claude, blah, blah, blah. Like, well, that's that's that's not that may not even be applicable by the time Inbound comes around, right? So you don't want to be too narrow, and then you don't want to date anything where you're talking about a topic that could, you know, no longer be something that's, you know, really important. So you're 100% right. And the other trick is, I don't submit my slide deck. Inbound's the only one I submitted even on time. Like, I'll give you a real example. I'm doing a speech this week. They've been hounding me for a month to submit my slide deck. I ignore these emails, and I'm bringing a USB with my slide deck because I want it to actually be up to date. I will wait till the last possible second to submit my Inbound deck because it is brutal to get on that stage and they don't let you change a word. I've tried to. They don't let you change a dot on your presentation. So I wait till the last second so the thing isn't dated to the best of my ability.

Rob Jones: Yeah, that's good. And I mean, to great another another victory point for Chris. Excellent question, much better than mine. To Jay's point and and kind of what Chris was leading into, I think the trick or loophole in that is if you title it something that will be relevant for five years. Your the topic literally says the next five years will not reward the smartest. So in in an effort to make it a narrow POV, which you do have, I think, right? Like, oh, that's interesting. Why won't it reward the smartest when we're talking about AI? Is is to broaden that time horizon to five years. So, bravo. Well done. Um, you might say that stupider people have done that. Uh, wait, wait a minute. Is that a segue into the book? He just showed us. Congrats. Are you already a second time best seller? You have a book coming out June 9th. I'm in the ambassador club. I've quoted it in several emails. Tell us about the book. Go ahead.

Jay Schwedelson: Well, so first of all, I shouldn't write a book because I'm borderline illiterate. The only reason I said yes to writing this book was that we are giving 100% of the net author proceeds to the V Foundation for Cancer Research. And that's why I'm really doing it. I mean, this thing might be toilet paper or a paperweight, but at least if you buy the book, it's going to go to kick cancer's butt. So that was my that was my North Star. And for some miracle reason, the book does come out June 9th, but we went to number one now multiple times on Amazon in the marketing category out of thousands of marketing books, went to number one, which is super weird. Um, and stupider people have done it. This is an exact quote when I was really having a rough time in my business that my grandfather, uh, put his arm around me when I was saying, I don't think I could do it. And he looked at me, I was at my work, and he said, Jay, I feel bad saying this, but stupider people have done it. And it was a light bulb moment because I do believe I'm pretty stupid. But I believe that there is somebody out there that is stupider than I am that has been able to do it. And knowing that that human is out there gives me the confidence that I too can do what I want to do. So this is my this is my thing. This is my ethos.

Rob Jones: There are some really deep, uh, psychological and philosophical points we could get into. I don't think now is the time or place. Uh, I'll just say my dad used to say, uh, essentially the same thing, which is like, you can want in one hand and crap in the other and see which one fills up faster. So I think there's there's an argument to be made for like willpower, want, testing, action, moving, literally, you've mentioned movement in your speeches. There is a what am I going to actually do versus what am I going to pontificate about? And you for sure are a person of action. Is that kind of an underlying theme in the book? Like it test, do it. It doesn't matter as long as you're out there doing something.

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah, and and and, you know, I learned this, I I had an opportunity to talk interview Barbara Corcoran. That's me doing a flex right there. And one of the things that she told me that really stuck with me, and I put it in the book, is that, you know, a lot of people make, okay, I'm going to make my five-year plan or I'm going to make my six-month plan, and I'm going to do this, that or whatever. And I did that for my business, and I realized the day after I made this six-month plan, I woke up, that next morning, I was no closer to solving the issues I had in my life. And I and what she said is you need like a five-minute plan. Like, what are you doing right now? Screw your six-month plan. And then that's really how I function because so much can change in six months, right? So do something, break something, fail, embarrass yourself, be a loser, everything. That that's kind of my mantra.

Rob Jones: That's such a fitting mantra for what it is you actually do and the and kind of the value that I started getting from you in like a professional sense, which was we figured out these times to send emails work better than others. We figured out these subject like all of that stuff that's more the I'd say professional corporate Jay. Um, lends itself to being able to taking action and sharing results with people. So, anyway, congrats on the book. Congrats on the best seller. Can't tell you how much of a Dicky V, uh, fan or Jimmy V, Dicky V, too, who now is part of that foundation, but proceeds going to cancer is amazing. Thank you for that. Uh, in honor, I'm going to let Chris ask the first one, but in honor of the book title, stupider people have done it. Stupider people have done a lot of things, right?

Jay Schwedelson: Oh, yeah.

Rob Jones: Um, stupider people have spoken at a conference. Yeah. Some you gave a couple tips, but a couple tips on speaking at a conference, what to do with your hands.

Jay Schwedelson: Okay.

Rob Jones: What to do with your

Jay Schwedelson: I'll give you my number one tip about speaking. And this is not just for a conference, could be on a Zoom, could be in a conference room, whatever. The thing that drives me bananas, I'll give you two things. Number one, never start out your session or speech, whatever, with a slide that has like, these are the seven things I'm going to go over. Okay? That is the worst thing you could do in any presentation ever, because all the person is doing is when you're on number two, they're like, oh God, we have to get to number seven. Okay? Don't make a list of the things you're about to talk about. That is boring on a good day. It is absolutely terrible. The other thing you never want to do is don't memorize your speech or whatever you're going to say. That doesn't mean you shouldn't practice. But there is nothing more boring on planet Earth than watching somebody who has memorized a speech talking, because all they're trying to do is get through it. And if they screw up one word, they're like, and it's nobody cares. The person doesn't care that's speaking, you don't care that's listening. Don't do that.

Chris Carolan: Please.

Rob Jones: Chris, I'm going to let you go next, uh, because I'm Jay is yelling at me and I don't know if it's good or bad. So Chris, next thing that stupider people have done. Yeah, got a submission.

Chris Carolan: Um, oh man. Uh, like

Rob Jones: No mini.

Chris Carolan: The thing that's changed for me this year after doing all of the content where, you know, single digit views on LinkedIn and YouTube and everybody asking like, why? The knowledge gained, like I'm showing up on calls just with confidence and conviction and knowing as people suggested to me, like, I don't ever have to prove myself at any point. I never feel the need to do that. So like, the the move and try things, like as long as you're confident and like have some conviction about that, like that can be anybody. Especially with AI right now.

Jay Schwedelson: Well, I'll add something to that and what you're the other value you're really getting that I don't think people realize is, nobody in their work life really holds themselves accountable enough. What I mean by that is people think if you have a newsletter or a podcast or you're putting out content that you're doing it to, uh, uh, get more views, get more customers, get more whatever. But the reality of it is, the reason I do it is by having a weekly newsletter I put out or a podcast that I put out or whatever, it forces me every week to go out and look at what find out what's new in the industry. What's going on? I'm holding myself accountable to learning, right? And it's a giant pain in the butt. But if I didn't do that, then every week would pass and the only way I would learn new things is by just doing my job and that's not enough, right? So whether you send a Slack message to your team, these are the latest trends in the industry every week. You drop an email to the five people you work with saying, this is a new thing that we should focus on this week. And you do it every week. It doesn't have to be a podcast or newsletter. You know, but Chris, like you putting out all the content, it doesn't matter if you get single digit views or whatever. You are elevating your career because you are becoming more more knowledgeable because you're holding yourself accountable to learn.

Rob Jones: Yeah, to since Chris Chris went a bit off script of the format. Stupider people have done it, created content. Jay's advice, it's for accountability and and research more than anything. So.

Jay Schwedelson: I I absolutely. Yeah.

Rob Jones: Last last one or two. Uh, stupider people have done it, written a best seller. Any I mean, what have you learned through writing the book? You did say you were illiterate. I don't buy that for a damn second, Jay. Come on. But any advice through writing a book?

Jay Schwedelson: Yeah, don't do it. Uh, uh, uh, uh, absolutely do not do it. It has been way more than I wanted to be. And, uh, uh, everybody's got all these editors, people have opinions. It's a giant pain in the butt. It it was recently Memorial Day. Everybody was on the beach. I was in a studio recording an audiobook that four people are going to listen to. It sucks. Um, don't do it.

Rob Jones: Love it. Um, Chris, you got one to close us out on?

Chris Carolan: I'm just glad there's an audiobook because that's the only way that I'm going to listen to it or read it or consume it in any way. So I appreciate you doing that.

Rob Jones: I got a I got a sneak preview template, uh, sent to me over the weekend and I I uh, I looked at it while I was trying to watch my eight-year-old not drown in the pool. Uh, anyway, we can clip that. Stupider people have done it, um, given marketing advice in 2026. Everything's changing, you mentioned that, but what's one piece of advice that you still feel will hold true to humans this year?

Jay Schwedelson: Oh, I think it's going to go even more towards humans. Uh, the greatest thing of all time is that the the the content that matters now is the human content. It's low-fi, it's point the camera at yourself, take the picture. It's BTS, behind the scenes, number one content format on the planet. Second top content format is the walking and talking, pointing a a phone at yourself and walking and talking. Anything that doesn't look like it was made by some sort of AI slop is crushing it. So humans for the win. Uh, I'm thrilled that my kids' school, they got rid of cell phones, you're not allowed to have a cell phone. I am all for, I want to go back to like the dark ages where like, you know, we're using tablets on walls and and banging things. So let's go backwards. I would be a very bad caveman. I I talked to my wife about all the time. I I actually programmed our garage clicker this weekend and she said that's the most manly thing you've done in like 10 years. And I'm like, I don't know if that's a compliment or not, but it is in fact true. But I do think, um, and not manly, personally, whatever I'm supposed to say, the bottom line is that I think we are all going to start doing more things with our hands, which is bad for me because I'm in I really am not a dude.

Rob Jones: Uh, quick standing invite, Jay, as we wrap up. If you ever want to be banging tablets on walls and stuff, you you can come to my house. That's basically what we do here.

Jay Schwedelson: We call that Tuesday.

Rob Jones: That's they were doing that earlier. Actually, they're not I had them leave the house for this interview so that that wouldn't be happening. Um, but it would have been human. Shout out George, who couldn't have been here. Um, Jay, we thank you.

Jay Schwedelson: Why don't you give you guys a shout out, okay? Uh, uh, uh, uh, first of all, Chris is very cool. You're not Rob. But Rob, I want you to know, you make in Unbound, uh, you make the Unbound experience special. When people see you in that orange suit come in their way, you're not just the mayor of Unbound. You bring a vibe, you bring an energy. You're one of the things that makes Unbound different. So you may think that you're there and you're just spreading, you know, the word, but you're actually one of the cornerstone things that people get excited about, so no pressure.

Rob Jones: Thanks. I uh, I was going to accept the appreciation, but you ended it with no pressure. Now I feel nothing but pressure. But hey, stupider people have felt pressure and thrived. I know that they have. Um, anyway, thank you, Jay, for joining us. Uh, we will be able. Where can we get the book? Is it still on Amazon? I know.

Jay Schwedelson: You can get it on Amazon. You can get it on Barnes and Noble. You can get it in the local uh, restroom because somebody probably left it there. And uh, anywhere.

Rob Jones: So I know that Jay encourages crowd participation and uh, and a lot of crazy stuff. He will probably quiz you if you're at Unbound and do that. So please read uh, the book. And to take a point from Jay, our guest, I'm going to be moving as we end this out because talking without movement is boring. Thanks to everybody for tuning in to Road to Unbound and we will see you next week.

Chris Carolan: Yes, sir.

Rob Jones: See ya.