Finding Your Lane

Casey: Good morning, afternoon, good evening. Where are we posting this? LinkedIn?

Rob: Everywhere.

Casey: Everywhere, internet, worldwide web, Netflix.

Rob: Netflix.

Casey: Welcome back to the Road to Unbound. I am today apparently taking over the wheel and we are here to talk all things Unbound, get you prepared whether you've been there before or never been there before. And we're taking a pit stop today. Take it away, Rob.

Rob: I feel like I feel like I need to get some sound effects for the board like a screeching of tires, a crashing of like whatever, maybe a guy yelling, "Use your blinker!" Or like things like that that we could be throwing into the mix, but maybe I'll have that for next week or the week after.

Rob: I would add, it's a bit more niche, I think, but the only I didn't say fudge. I said the word so, you know, that's kind of road trippy. It's it's from Christmas Story, so it's out of season, but Casey, you did a great job. The intro was uh yeah, to the world, worldwide web, LinkedIn, internet, YouTube, whoever will.

Casey: The worst part is I wasn't sure if Rob was joking or not until he didn't talk.

Rob: Till he didn't open his mouth.

Rob: When did I ever joke?

Rob: I never joke.

Rob: That's what makes me so bad at my job of being a content creator. Uh, yes, as Casey said, we are here. Last week we talked about um, the unbelievable, still kind of in shock about the speaker lineup, keynotes, Mr. Goat himself, co-owner of the Vegas Raiders, as everybody knows him, Tom Brady. Just kidding, Kyle. Uh, Sunni Williams, uh, Cynthia Erivo, Mel Robbins.

Rob: Tons of great people. Today, we are announcing two additional speakers.

Rob: Drum roll, please. George, do you have the drum roll?

George: See, that's another one I got to add to the mix is an actual drum roll.

Rob: Drum roll.

George: Drum roll.

Rob: There we go. There we go.

Rob: George and Kyle.

Rob: Who are on the call right now.

Casey: What?

Casey: Oh!

George: Whoa!

Casey: Whoa!

Rob: Huge shots.

George: Are you amazed?

Rob: Big surprise. Uh, this has been a point of, I'm not going to say contention, but I have said before to George like, oh, like you won't be a speaker. Ha ha. And he's been pretty adamant that I never take it for granted. Maybe that's part of what gets me selected, but I I prepare every talk like it's the last one I'm going to give. So, appreciate that. Kyle, this is your 900th session, I believe, just at Unbound this year. So, get ready for that. I'm sure you've started prepping. But in light of that, I want to do something a little bit different where we talk to two guests that we have co-hosted this show. They've both spoken multiple times at multiple what will now be Unbound conferences.

Rob: what will now be Unbound conferences.

George: Yeah.

Rob: And I'm going to phrase the questions.

George: I better get that buzzer ready.

Rob: Yeah, the you better get it ready.

George: I feel like you're going to I feel like you're going to need this uh you're going to need this today, it feels like.

Rob: Yeah, I'm trying to incorporate sports talk radio and hot takes and that world into this to make it more interesting. So I'm going to give some statements and y'all are going to agree or disagree with them and then provide what the hope and intent for this is is that people can feel informed, feel like you've shared experience, any of that stuff. Even the first question would be, um, it is easy to get selected as a speaker for Unbound. Yes or no? I think I know this one.

George: No.

Kyle: No.

George: No, it's not easy at all. Um, Kyle, go ahead and go first and then I'll

George: Yeah, go ahead.

Kyle: So, I have built sort of a a rapport and a reputation and I have inside access to the Unbound team. And so, um, I feel a lot of confidence when I when I request to speak, but I still go through the normal application process. Um, two years ago, I had three sessions. Last year, they they reduced it to two. This year, I'm back to having three, which is great. I think that's mostly based on the feedback that I was talking too fast in the two sessions I had last year, trying to get three sessions into two slots. Um, but a lot of my colleagues on on HubSpot Academy, uh, who are also like, have a deep knowledge of HubSpot and have a great point of view and have good experience as a speaker, will apply and year after year and never get in. Uh, nobody gets a walk-on role to Unbound except for maybe maybe Yamini. Other than that, all bets are off. Uh, whoever you are, whether you work at HubSpot or not, uh, however much experience you have, uh, whatever exciting ideas you have, um, it's a very popular event. A lot of people apply to speak and, uh, we're only able to take so many slots. And at some point, we are choosing between equally good speakers and we have to just pick one, right? And I have no idea. My heart goes out to the team who makes those decisions. Uh, but also for any of you who have applied year after year or maybe just this year for the first time and didn't get a speaking slot, that is that is not a commentary on your capability. Uh, it is it is just the reality of the limited number of slots and the high number of applications this this event receives.

George: Yeah, I definitely go ahead, Casey.

Casey: Oh, I was just going to I really I didn't know Kyle, you still applied like the rest of us.

Kyle: Yeah, people who I don't, but I I go through that same application process.

Casey: I did.

Casey: Yeah.

George: Yeah, no, there's there's a process because the process has to be followed. Like there's there's eyes that get dotted and T's that get crossed and you've got to sign like a thing and like agree to thing yeah, there's a whole thing. And and like like listen, what I want to double down on something that Kyle said and that is your identity is not dictated by your ability to speak at what once was Inbound and now is Unbound. That is like it's nothing to do with it. They get a metric butt ton of humans who want to do this. They rotate and try to get new speakers in, but also know that people have the speakers that they love. Um, and I have never when submitting just thought that I would be able to like yep, it's it's without a shadow of a doubt. To the point for years of doing this, I would submit three different talks so that they could pick the one that they felt fit into what they were trying to do best. And so each year instead of speaking on the same thing over and over and again, like many speakers do, I would craft something new uh from the ether because it was going to fit the scenario. Now, I'm telling you this because you've got to give the people options. And so many people out there that I've talked to, they're like, they submit one talk and they hope for the best. And that's just no. So now I think the limit is two now, I think.

Casey: Yeah, I was going to say.

George: Probably because of me, sorry. Um, but you can submit two and then see what happens. And and so, um, don't give up.

George: That's all I'm going to say is don't give up. Like every year if if this is a dream that you want to step on the stage of Inbound, don't give up. Um, I keep submitting to speak at Inbound because my big, big, big dream was in 2012, I saw Gary Vaynerchuk on the main stage and I said, I want to do that. Now, will I ever make it to the main stage of Inbound? I don't know if that's in the the writings of, you know, whatever. But I'm going to continue to at least submit to kind of do the thing that is where I can at least do the thing that I love to do, which is help humans and add value.

Casey: So hypothetically, totally hypothetical, if there was a person out there who did want to speak at Inbound, who has applied multiple times, what would you say and to that person, um, she or he, whatever the hypothetical case may be. Um, other than like because like, I mean, sure, I I or anyone else hypothetically could just keep putting.

Rob: Your friend.

Casey: My friend.

George: Yeah, the friend who wears orange and happens to be on a bus on the way to Unbound.

Kyle: Wait, by the way, good job, Casey, being the only one to remember the dress code today.

George: Yeah, yeah, I suck at it.

Casey: I have a I have a reminder on my phone.

Rob: Okay.

George: Fixie. Um, so Casey, to give you some uh some thoughts on on that one. Um, one, you've got by the way, I'm I'm about to sound like a marketer. Um, I'm about to sound like a salesperson. Uh, you've got to know your audience. And what I mean by that is when you write the title, the description, the bullet points, you want to pay attention to that you're trying to not necessarily sell the audience. They haven't even seen it yet. You need to write it in a way that it sells to the event organizers where they go, holy crap, this sounds like it would be amazing. And so the amount of time that most people spend on finessing uh that title or that topic or that description or those bullet points. Um, many times it's like, let me throw it together and hope for the best scenario. Um, but I want us to all realize like this this is where you spend a maximum amount of time because you know you're trying to uh sell the idea to the event organizer because then it can be tweaked before it actually lands out on a page to where you'll then speak on the thing. So, that that's my thoughts there.

Rob: I think Casey dropped somehow. Uh, so I'm not sure how that's going to work with getting back in.

George: She jumped out the bus window. What happened?

Rob: Hey, this is a rest stop, so maybe she had to, you know, get out, stretch, walk around, you know, whatever that is.

George: Walk the dogs.

Rob: Walk the dogs.

George: Hey.

Rob: Jinx, you owe me a ticket to Unbound. All right, glad we.

George: I thought it was a Coke, man. I thought it was a Coke.

Kyle: Inflation these days, they cost the same.

George: Oh, a ticket to Inbound. My goodness. Unbound.

Kyle: Oh, man.

George: Dang it. I knew we'd need it today. Just happened to be me.

Kyle: I I do have thoughts. Casey's not here. Should should we wait?

George: Continue your thoughts. Continue the she can get back on the bus and watch the rerun. Yeah.

Kyle: I don't So this is this is the thing that came to my mind and this is based on old information, but I will say long time ago, in Inbound, as it was called then, uh, was a much smaller and more informal affair. I'm going to guess this was like 2016, 2017, roughly 10 years ago. I volunteered because they asked for volunteers to review submissions for speakers. And so I read the submissions that came in and they all had like you had to submit a recording of yourself as a speaker. And I will say it is hard to have a professional grade speaking recording if you've never had a professional speaking engagement. And that is really one of those you have to have experience to get experience sorts of things. Um, but I was amazed at how so many people missed the point of this video altogether. Uh, it would just be like someone talking to their phone explaining, yeah, you know, like at Inbound, I'm going to say this and I'm going to do this and I it's going to be great, right? Clearly off the cuff, not demonstrating their ability as a speaker, just like talking to the person giving the application. And it's like, no, the reason we wanted a video is so we have some sense of what people are going to experience at the event if you are actually on stage. Um, and so I would say, you know, uh, find an opportunity to either speak at an actual event, that would be great, and have someone in the audience record you, because that's real proof of what you're like when you're on stage. But barring that, simulate it somehow, right? Just uh, see if you can find some place, uh, where a friend can record you and you can give a talk and people can get a sense of like, this is this this is the rate I speak at. This is how animated I am. This is how I use the stage. This is how I use my hands. This is what my slides generally look like. Um, because otherwise, all we have is a name and a talk description and we have no idea what the the real version of that might look like in the end.

George: Yeah, the proof is in the pudding is what Kyle's saying. And it's Kyle, you're making me reflect back to one of the gifts that just kind of has kept giving over the years is when I worked with Marcus Sheridan and one of the things we did is we created a uh GBT speaker reel. And so like I had we just combined everything together and so like when I uh here's what's fun too, I'll give you this little tidbit. When I submitted for I think it was 2016, I submitted, I had a speaker reel to like, here, this is me on stage like doing my thing. Um, the next years that I would submit, I would just send them my 2016 talk uh Inbound, be like, yeah, this is me speaking. And it was like at your event. And so then all of a sudden it was like, I would use that and they're like, oh yeah. And then all of a sudden it just became a thing. So, anyway.

Kyle: I don't know for sure. And I I hate to speculate in a way that will be uh discouraging to people. That's not what I intend. But if you can put a lot of effort into that first speaker video and get yourself on Inbound, subsequent speaker videos become so much easier because you can just like have someone at Inbound record you and say, this is exactly what you'll get, right? And here is my feedback from last year's session. And uh, but that initial entry is so hard. And I don't actually know what I was why I was hedging at the beginning. I don't actually know if if we could crunch the numbers if repeat speakers have like a higher acceptance rate than first-time speakers. It may actually not make that kind of a difference. I think what does make a difference though is if you have a speaker video that shows you giving a real talk to a real audience, that's going to make it so much easier for the person evaluating your application to know what you're actually offering than if it's just like you in your bedroom, uh, talking about how great you're going to do.

Rob: I think that's so unbelievable points. I don't know why that wasn't more apparent to me before right now, but that's a lot of to me an interesting take on that is like the work experience versus college versus I'm 21. It's like, where am I going to get it? You just said it'd be interesting to crunch the numbers on repeat speakers. I would argue that it wouldn't be that interesting if you omit Unbound from that. Like there has to be some if you're going to speak at Unbound, there has to be some like requisite other speaking public experience. I'd be interested to see if like the percentage of people that just had an idea and a well-written speech and didn't submit a video or have any proof of them having entertained, spoken to, educated an audience.

Kyle: It does.

Rob: Yeah, so.

Kyle: Unless you like recently launched a podcast that hit 10 million downloads or

George: That's the other thing.

Kyle: You have a unicorn company you founded, like you've got to you've got to have proven speaking experience, I would I would assume.

George: Audience size is a real thing too to pay attention to in this conversation that we're having. But like it does fundamentally become easier just in general when all of a sudden like you can send them to a page and there's like a uh um, you know, social media marketing world and content marketing and B2B forum and like as soon as they can start to see these other like logos and like faces and that's the other thing. Like if you've spoken at events, even smaller events, ask the people to give you like a video testimonial because as soon as you can send somebody to like from Unbound to a page that has a couple videos of you speaking and there's some video testimonials of the people enjoying you speaking, like that what come on. Again, I'm going to sound like a marketer, uh social proof, right? So it's like, show what you do and then show how people love what you do.

Rob: That's why I didn't get accepted because not only did I submit 39 different uh speaking ideas. My video was just of the audience uh enjoying the uh session.

George: Wow.

George: Wow.

Rob: I want to get to a next toss up. That was kind of a I don't want to say easy one because I mean Kyle's point of like, you should probably upload professional ideal footage of you having spoken before and it working out. Uh, was something I just hadn't thought of before, but that's really excellent advice along with the the caveat, uh, the social POV can seem like everyone is about to announce they were selected and the headliners came out and it must be so easy to do that. So I appreciate both of you saying, you know, it's not. There's tons of good people that do every year, you know, to Kyle's point, don't get accepted. First additional question. So I guess that'd be number two if we're counting. Uh, it's too early to start thinking about your topic.

Rob: Yes or no?

Kyle: No.

Rob: I would include I would include in that just based on the timeline. It's too early to start thinking about refining your topic based on changes in AI in HubSpot.

Kyle: No. I mean, you uh you you have to have a topic when you apply to speak, I think.

George: Yeah, yeah.

Kyle: But also, I've I've already started building my deck. Uh, that is a thing I started like as soon as I got my acceptance note. So.

George: Yep. Yep.

George: Like like like listen, and and I kind of alluded to this uh earlier as well. Like for the past years, I submitted three talks, right? Which meant I had three roads I could potentially go down. Let me tell you the times they picked the thing that I was hoping that they wouldn't pick that I was like, I got to I better start right now. And because there's the research and there's the starting to lay out the deck and what story do you want to tell? And and by the way, I'm glad that I have that experience, by the way, of starting fresh because a little unknown fact is that I my talk didn't get approved this year. The talk that I submitted did not get approved. Um, I wanted to do a talk on AI. And there were a metric butt ton of humans who wanted to talk about AI. And by the way, the the next words out of my mouth, I am saying completely uh in a humble state, but the team reached out and said, hey, would you even be interested in helping us fill a gap that we have? And I said, absolutely, let's find that gap and I'll figure out how I can help. And so I am speaking it in uh Unbound. Whoop, almost did it again. I did I I stopped. I stopped. I am speaking at Unbound. Um, but it's because the ability and flexibility to pivot, transition, build something from scratch. Um, and so no, it's not too early because Rob, I got a whole metric butt ton of stuff to get done and ready so that I can talk to the Unbound audience about the five-layer marketing system and how they should stop chasing tactics and start compounding growth. Like that's what I'm like, I'm majorly focused on that. Me and my assistant, that's what we're focused on.

Rob: I appreciate Kyle being a good teammate and correcting me uh saying you had to have a topic when you submitted the talk, Rob, you moron. Um, so before I just want to add that caveat. It was more to to what you said after that, like too early to start refining and you know, you addressed that with like, I've already started building the deck. Because at some point, I think both of you have kind of alluded to this, George more directly with like, I don't even know what I'm going to say till I get on stage at times. Like it'll come. But but starting to prepare, starting to have something as a foundation, topic, deck built so that the natural like the changes if there are any and if they're applicable that occur over the next four months before you give the speech are you have space to make them and still feel comfortable about delivering a session to the audience. Casey, over to you.

Casey: Um, well, I just think it's interesting and George, you told me that story a couple of weeks ago and one thing I've kind of been sitting on since then is I think there is as someone that has applied to speak in the past, uh, there's a tendency or an urge to talk about the thing you think HubSpot wants you to talk about, so being AI. But you're almost like putting yourself in a almost a worse position because that's what everyone's trying to talk about. Um, so I just I don't know, I don't know what the question is here, but like any thoughts on like making sure your talk is more unique or your point of view is more unique.

Rob: I want to interrupt them answering just because that's exactly where I was going. So maybe I can create a more charged.

Casey: Do you have a question?

Casey: Make sure.

Casey: Yeah, sorry.

George: Yeah, sorry. Kyle's mouth was half open. My mouth was half open. We both felt like that was a question. But Rob, queue it up just a little bit better, uh, and we'll sit here in anticipation and shake until we can actually answer.

Rob: Whatever there should be a sounder for shame. Like I know I I let Casey open the show for good reason. I'm just not feeling it today for whatever. I'm I'm not doing a good job. Anyway, the question to hopefully make this a little more clear is uh, it's not even a question, it's a topic. You can say yes or no. Uh, your session topic should serve your business or yourself first, your audience second. Do you agree with that or disagree with it?

George: So, hold on to what you were going to say, Kyle, to Casey's thing while I handle this real quick. If you go into Unbound or any other speaking opportunity, uh, trying to help you and your business, get off the stage. Because it's not the time, it's not the place. When you step on stage, your job at Unbound or any other event is to purely love on the humans who have taken the valuable time out of their day to sit in the seats to hopefully find that nugget or two that will change them, change their business, change the outcomes, whatever it is. And so it's not about me, it's not about you as a speaker. It is always about them. And that's how you have to create your deck. That's how you have to create your talk. That's how you should reverse engineer the title, description and bullet points that you give to the event leaders is, I am going to pour out so much love in this 45 minute, 90 minute, whatever session. That I'm I'm I'll stop. I'll stop.

Rob: I should have just let Casey's question go. Go ahead, Kyle.

Kyle: Actually, I want to I want to pile on and then Casey, we'll get back to you, I promise. Um, I spoke at an event once, um, that uh, the the organizers invited the the leaders of the local HubSpot user group to come give like a closing keynote with the intention that these people could say, hey, we have a hug in the area. We meet on this cadence. Every so often we meet in person. This is an opportunity for you. If you like what's happened at this event, this is an opportunity for you to continue your HubSpot learning. I don't know where the miscommunication happened, but these guys got on stage and just pitched their business. And we're like, yeah, we are these consultants. We help with these problems. If you need help with this or this or that, here's our business cards. And the event organizer standing at the back of the room raised her hands and interrupted them and said, hey, tell them about the hug. And these guys were like, oh yeah, and we run a user group, uh, here locally. Uh, find us at the after party if you want to know details about that. And then left the stage. And it was just like, what how did this happen? Right? Like, how did you possibly think? Like, I don't know if they were like paid sponsors of the event. That would almost make it make more sense, but it just like, for me as an attendee, I mean, I was a speaker also, but like for me just sitting in the audience, it was like, they took the stage and started talking. And I was like, how how does this fit? What does this have to do with anything we've been talking about, right? And so if you are in that mindset of anytime I'm on a stage, I need to pitch my business. This is how you grow a business. This is what it means to be a business owner or a salesperson. Unbound probably won't be a great fit for you because that's not that's not what it's about, right? But hopefully, if you give a a passionate speech on an interesting topic, lots of people in the audience will come up and want to connect with you on LinkedIn anyway. And that's naturally organically going to be good for your business, right? Um, but I would say avoid the slides that are like, here's my company, here's what we do. Skip the talk track that's like, here's our value statement and how we're different from our competitors. Like, by all means, on your about me slide, include that you are, you know, whatever operator at whatever company and it works in this industry and in this location, so people know who you are. But get to the the the information and education value you're providing on stage as quickly as possible. Um,

George: Can can can I say one thing that I don't know if I've ever shared?

Kyle: Or Casey's never going to get her question answered.

George: I'm I'm going to say it quickly. I'm going to say it quickly, I promise. Whenever I go to Unbound or historically have gone to Inbound or any event, um, can I tell you that I only have one goal? One goal for every event I've ever gone to and the one goal is, how do I make this the best possible event? That's it. Which means that's why I stay in the halls. That that's why I'll like stop and talk to somebody for however long. That's why when I hit my slide of who I am, it's for like 10 seconds. Uh, yeah, I'm George B. Thomas. You see that? Okay, bye. Let's move on. Let's let's go. Like, so as a speaker, your whole goal, like the the whole that whole week, three days, two, whatever, how do I make this the best event ever? And if you come from that place, it'll be the best event for you. It'll be the best event for your company because you made it the best event for the other humans. All right, let's back to Casey.

Kyle: And honestly, if you want to sell stuff, sign up as a vendor or sponsor a booth. That that that that's way easier than getting accepted as a speaker. And everyone will be expecting you to sell stuff. They will come to your booth if they're interested in buying from your category, right? So, there's a place for everyone here. Just understand what the right one is for your goals.

Kyle: Casey, I've forgotten your question.

Rob: About you.

Casey: I forgot my question too, but yeah, it was I didn't I go ahead. Rob, you can make it.

Rob: I wrote it down so that I wouldn't forget and I lost my notes. No, I didn't. It was uh how to think about a unique topic. We've mentioned that from kind of reviewing some of the speakers and sessions and there were some topics that were like, I would go see that just from the title alone. I think that was more of Casey's question was like how to think through unique topics.

Kyle: And I think in a previous iteration of this show, we talked about um some of the organizers of Unbound had posted on LinkedIn saying, uh, we can tell people are just generating applications using Claude because they're like all identical, right? So like, Casey, I remember your question was this balance between trying to figure out topics Unbound is actually interesting at interested in and the unique value add. And I don't mean to say that the needs of the event are irrelevant because they're not, right? Clearly, there are certain there's there's a certain realm you have to work within. Uh, but Unbound is broader than a lot of conferences, right? If you aren't talking specifically about marketing or sales or operations or HubSpot, but you have really interesting like uh think big kind of I don't know, social impact sorts of things you want to talk about. There are often tracks for that. Um, so I would say start with what you are passionate about. What you feel like your worldview is uh where how it is unique, you know? All the ways that like anytime you get on social media, you're like, wow, everybody seems to see the world in a particular way and I see it in a really different way and I don't know if I'm crazy. Um, that is the stuff nobody else is going to apply to speak. And then maybe turn to your favorite LLM and say like, hey, I have these ideas on this topic. I'm thinking about making an application for this event. Where's the Venn diagram overlap? Um, but I think it's more about introspecting about yourself and your experience and your viewpoint than it is about trying to guess what the organizers have because as George discovered, um, the hot topics are going to have the most applications and that's the most competition. And as we started said at the beginning, it's not so much about quality as it is about there just being a spot that's perfect for you.

Casey: Can I ask about a misconception that I think I have? I don't know if other people have too.

George: Go ahead.

Casey: I and I it might be a misconception or it might be uh what's the opposite of a misconception?

Rob: Mister conception.

George: Mister conception.

George: Wow. Okay.

Casey: I I have felt like HubSpot does not want people other than HubSpot giving HubSpot product advice.

Kyle: Ah.

Kyle: I wish I wish there was like an officially published stance on this. Um, my observation is that um, Inbound, now Unbound, has kind of been a swinging pendulum throughout its history. Uh, for a while, it was just like a HubSpot user conference. And then we're like, no, we want to be like the marketing conference. And uh, we don't care if people even know HubSpot sponsors it. And then we're like, well, we used to generate a lot more deals for HubSpot when we were up front about the fact that we were organizing this conference. So maybe we better do that. And also, a lot of HubSpot users are perplexed and annoyed that they come to the HubSpot conference and don't learn anything about HubSpot, right? And I think that's where we are now. We want to be broad enough that if you aren't currently using HubSpot, you still might think about coming and you'll still find value. Um, but we do want to teach people about HubSpot stuff. In 2022, when I applied for the first time to speak under the heading of things every HubSpot admin needs to know, it was a I was out on a limb. I HubSpot didn't really want people to know that HubSpot admins existed. HubSpot Inbound didn't really seem interested in talking about HubSpot. But it turned out to be a really popular track, right? And uh, after it was over, I told the team like, I think people want more HubSpot content. And I think that is trickling down, but it is a hard balance. Um, it is So that is my perception of history. I'm not close to how decisions about speakers are made. Um, I it is it is clearly not the case that HubSpot employees get preferential treatment because as I said, I have uh compadres here at HubSpot Academy who have applied year after year and cannot for the life of them manage to get on the Inbound stage, uh, despite having been the face of HubSpot educational content for years. And on the other hand, we have plenty of like HubSpot partners and others giving tracks on HubSpot specific stuff. So I don't I don't know. I wish the Unbound team would say like, here's the decision tree of whether or not your talk should include uh HubSpot stuff. They have never done that. I don't know if they themselves have a clear mental picture of the logic that tree would have.

George: So, so let me jump in here.

Kyle: Please do.

George: One, I've seen by the way, as the guy who doesn't work at HubSpot.

Kyle: Yeah.

George: I have seen where some humans have been not a HubSpot employee and been able to talk about HubSpot stuff, but it's only when it's in tandem with a HubSpot product manager. So like, for instance, this this year, Remington Beg, somebody from HubSpot Academy, Christine, I think, and then a product uh uh manager are are doing a talk. So, somebody outside of HubSpot, a couple people from HubSpot. Uh, now, let me back it up. Uh, Casey, would you call me a HubSpot guy?

Casey: I would.

George: You think I know a little bit about HubSpot?

Casey: I do.

George: You think I help humans with HubSpot?

Casey: Famously, yes.

George: Now, since 2016, do you think I've ever done a talk with the word HubSpot in it?

Kyle: Actually, great, uh, like pub trivia question.

George: Rob.

Casey: I would have said yes. The word HubSpot was come up.

George: Nope. I've done video marketing, content strategy, sales strategy. Like if you go back, uh, I don't think there one is about like and and if the word HubSpot is in the title, it's not me actually teaching the tool. It's some sort of like stratagem like piece of uh so no. So like,

Casey: I would have gotten that wrong in bar trivia.

George: Yeah. Uh, so so I do feel your pain of like if you're submitting to talk at Unbound and it is a very HubSpot tactical thing, your your plan should maybe be try to like uh somebody in HubSpot and you are submitting together to do a tactical session together, right? Uh, for next year. Um, but you could also position the talk as not so much HubSpot forward, but you could bring HubSpot nuggets inside of it once it gets approved, right? You see what I'm saying? So this could totally be like, um, I know you're going to hate me for this. It's the first thing where my brain went, but it's like, um, Casey's amazing lead scoring seven blood and stat and shit, right? And you didn't mention HubSpot in it at all in the title, in the description, in the bullet points. But now all of a sudden you're teaching like the strategy, the clouds of lead scoring, but you're the the dirt. Now you got some screenshots of like HubSpot lead score in there, right? Again, bad example because it's all about signals. Moving forward, anyway.

George: I digress.

Rob: So I I had a follow up.

Kyle: Yeah.

Rob: If you think George is triggered now, wait till I ask this and then we'll get to the final question. So this one's going to be cut cut short anyway, just I don't want to get yelled at anymore today than I already have been. I've not been doing a good job. Uh, you said if you show up to a conference uh event and you make it about you or your business like just stay home, right? Like serve audience first. Is that like what about for HubSpot? Is that not the whole point, right? Like I I'm not actually saying that or thinking that, but based on the back and forth of the swinging pendulum of we should have more HubSpot content, we shouldn't have HubSpot content. Oh crap, we need it for deals. How how is that different? Is it kind of like there's there are privileges being me, right? If you're putting the conference on and you're a billion dollar company, obviously there's going to be like you're going to make room for that for people to talk about you and your product.

George: Here's the thing though. I've never felt like I needed to shower after Inbound or Unbound. Like, I think HubSpot has done a really great job of creating an event and it not feeling like a time share sales process. So, that's all I'll say with that. I'll I'll give you real short. I I think they have done a great job. And the only time that I did actually lose my everlasting mind, uh, and and Kyle alluded to it is when they went clear off of the farm of like, and we're not going to the the freaking main area was all white and there was no sprocket anywhere. And HubSpot Academy was in another building in a room under I lost my mind then. But I've but I've never lost my mind because I felt like I was getting overly sold to by HubSpot at Inbound/Unbound. Ever.

Rob: I appreciate and agree with the context. So the last question, I know we have just like a minute left. Un or I keep saying question. Unbound will be meaningfully meaningfully different than Inbound. Yes or no?

Rob: Casey, I'll let you answer first.

Casey: I don't think so. I and maybe that's I I I haven't thought I've just thought it's I've really just thought it's just the name change, to be honest.

Rob: Where's the mute button? Just kidding. Uh, I don't know how I feel, so I'll let George and Kyle answer.

Casey: This is cheating.

Kyle: I like if, yeah.

George: Careful.

Kyle: I don't expect it to be a wildly different experience such that someone like George who's been going to Inbound forever will arrive at Unbound and be disoriented and unable to tell what's going on and unsure whether he should be there, right? Um, but I I can't help but wonder if when we do this show five years from now, if we'll look back and be like, man, that was the point of departure and now we're in this place where we're doing these things that in 2026, we couldn't even imagine, right? I don't know if there's been like some change of a few degrees on our flight path that in September, it'll still feel like we're on the same path we've always been, but give it a couple years and we'll be like, wow, that that that really made a difference, you know?

Rob: George, close us out. I know we're at time.

George: Yeah. So, first of all, if we look back and don't feel like every Inbound was dramatically different than the one before it, we've lost our freaking mind because it they've just been different. And so my answer to you, Rob, is, yes. Yes, it's going to be different. Um, you don't change your name and not be different. You don't be the Unbound team who I love and who is amazing and not be trying to do something different. Um, and by the way, the whole premise is it's time to do something different. You're supposed to unchain yourself from the historical woes of what's happening in the space. So, yes, it'll be different.

Rob: I can't wait for Unbound to unbreak my heart this year. We will see you on the road to Unbound next week after this rest stop. Chris will be back. See you next time.

George: Peace out.